How do the Sith treat fallen Jedi?

[SquigglyV]

I have been wondering about this today, how would fallen Jedi defectors be received in the Empire? Specifically experienced knights and masters who might not go through an academy since they already know what they're doing. I don't recall seeing any sort of precedent for how corrupt high-ranking Jedi are treated in the game, just a few lines on padawans who are inexperienced enough to start over as Sith apprentices or even acolytes.

Would there any sort of stigma because they never learned Sith traditions and are coming out of nowhere to disrupt Imperial politics? I feel like the Sith wouldn't want to actively discourage Jedi from breaking their chains, but even in the current pragmatic Empire there's plenty of petty war-disrupting nonsense going around, so I wouldn't put it past them. Not sure which would be a more prevalent opinion.

[Imazi]

I would expect suspicion but not as much disruption. If I understand current sith lore correctly, it is partially structured based on fallen Jedi from the past. I get the impression that the sith of now are closer to Jedi traditions than Pureblood sith traditions.

So a fallen master might fall right into the sith system just fine. That being said, I don't imagine that they would be given Darth or dark lord status until their loyalty is unquestioned.

[blingdenston]

Current Sith lore is ENTIRELY structured on 'fallen Jedi from the past'. The origins of the current Sith Empire lie with the Jedi Exiles, the 13 fallen Jedi banished from the Republic who conquered the Sith people of Korriban and interbred with them some 3300 years before the Battle of Coruscant. Before then, the Sith HAD built a small Empire after the fall of the Rakata, but their sorcerous ways and the backbiting that comes along with following the dark side led it to collapse centuries before the Exiles' arrival.

The Exiles conspired with the Kissai priest class to utterly subjugate the Sith hierarchy, and used the trappings of the Sith religion and sorcerous ways to legitimize themselves as the 'Sith Lords'. Over the next thousand years, the new Sith Empire rose, fusing the advanced Force-powers of the Exiles (who were capable of creating horrific monstrosities like the Leviathan and Sith Wyrm, as well as Jedi arts like lightsaber-fighting, Sense and Control-type Force powers) with the trappings of the old Sith to create the prototype of what we think of as 'Sith culture'.

Even after the Great Hyperspace War, when the 'pureblood Sith' were thought to be utterly annihilated, the SWTOR Sith Empire was founded by scions of this order. During the 1300 years between the 'original' Sith Empire's fall and the Galactic War, the 'True Sith' had contact with former Jedi like Revan and Malak, and had infiltrators like the Ovair family and the Children of the Emperor disguised amongst the Jedi, manipulating the Republic in preparation for the war that SWTOR is based around. I.E. they knew enough about Jedi arts and culture that they could almost perfectly impersonate them and practice their arts, at least during the 'we beat all the Sith and rebuilt our order from six people, time to crawl into our butts and stop going on dates' period of the Jedi Order.

How would they react to fallen Jedi joining? I kinda feel like the reason this is mostly deprecated in in-game storytelling is to hide that they weren't/couldn't allow faction switching in game...don't add too many former Jedi Sith/redeemed Sith Knights, or the players will get upset they can't do it too. The key for me is that it won't be like with the later Sith of the Brotherhood or Darth Bane's Sith Order...fallen Jedi probably won't be treated like prizes, since the Empire is an insular culture predicated on (and, luckily for the good guys, plagued by) nigh-religious deference to the Sith Lords of Korriban...status by birthright and from the specific arena of 'trained within the fold' are the primary determinors of where you are in the hierarchy, only outstripped by utter heroism in service to the Empire (and even that is limited to Sith Lords...how many legendary army/navy/intelligence heroes do you encounter in-game who die cursing the blindness of the Sith?) In other words: you probably won't get a gold star just for being former Master Drink Bloodnow, you've gotta back it up by getting the goods.

[Imazi]

I was hoping you'd weigh in. Thanks for the lore lesson Bling. :)

[SquigglyV]

That's more or less the same conclusion I reached regarding how they'd treat defectors, a fallen Jedi wouldn't get special treatment but if they can definitively prove their power and loyalty then that's all that matters.

That said, I was more wondering about how they'd be treated after being integrated into the Sith rather than right when they join, or if it would make any difference at all. There can be quite a bit of hatred against various origin stories like aliens and former slaves even once they've become highly successful Lords. Obviously that varies between individuals and political motives though, and I don't know if being an ex-Jedi would be viewed as a good thing, a bad thing, or if it's even significant at all.

[blingdenston]

Taking this with a drop of caution since I'm not In Charge Of The World, I'd say: Because of the cultural power of 'being Imperial' and 'steeped in the Sith teachings', I'd imagine that being a former Jedi would be a permanent stigma, something that would always hang over your head as long as the Empire exists in Vitiate's mold. As long as the 'high houses' of the Dromund System exist; as long as the pseudo-Human High Culture promoted in the Empire persist; as long as descent from the Sadows and Ragnoses and Kresshes is an instant status symbol; as long as the Empire is 'the Sith Empire', you will never leave your origins as a Jedi behind. Even if you kill every assassin, win every Kaggath, and ascend to Imperium yourself, you will always be 'the Fallen Jedi who became a Sith Lord', just like you'll always be a Twi'lek Sith or an Iridorian Sith.

Later Sith Lords, who are even MORE directly descended from the Jedi, will not have this issue. But because of the specific institution of 'Darth Vitiate's Sith Empire', it's never to be forgotten OR forgiven. I think if you were a youngling STOLEN from the Jedi and shipped to a Sith Academy, you're probably clean (only held back by whatever other stigma you cannot help, like species of origin). But if you were trained as a Jedi, went on Jedi missions, fought against the Empire? Your only path to power and recognition is by being a Player Character, and even then there's always an asterisk attached to your glorious roll of titles by the Imperials.

[SquigglyV]

That all makes sense, but I am probably biased because I was hoping there would be problems with being a fallen Jedi lol. Would make Sith RP much more interesting for me.

I wonder if such opinions would have changed in recent years though. We know the Empire is becoming much less humanocentric and such out of necessity, the changes were happening even as early as the Cold War but they were pushed out really hard after Malgus's rebellion. The Empire is no longer Vitiate's tool and hasn't been for at least a decade, arguably even longer what with his not communicating with the Dark Council ever.

[Imazi]

I basically know little of imperial lore due to sticking pubside. But, it seems to me, that post-Alliance/Acina's rule being a former dark jedi is even less likely to be a source of conflict. Following some fringe school of thought may yield better conflict potential.