KOTET Spoiler Thread

[Orell]

...okay, splitting off the threads a bit. Lets leave the spoilers out of the other thread, and use this one for discussing everything that happens, because hooo boy does things happen...

UNMARKED SPOILERS TO FOLLOW IN THIS THREAD LEAVE NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED

Chapter 1 through 7 only so far

Not going to go into too many specifics? But the big, big change I'm noticing is that there is a WHOLE lot less faffing about. I mean, there's still lots of trash mobs and side objectives and stuff like that, but it feels like everything we're doing has weight and impact.

Chapter one? Zak fleet gets trashed, Senya's half-dead, Arcann's free and on the run now but Voss also got wasted HARD.

Chapter two? Potentially make an alliance with the Sith Empire, arrest/kill Saresh, fight off the GenoHaradan(!!!!!!!!).

And it's like that all the way through so far, even with the fun, and combat-light Party Infiltration chapter. Would I prefer longer chapters? Yeah, sure, of course. But compare this to KOTFE:

Chapter 1? Okay, lots of stuff happens here. As it should.

Chapter 2? Dream sequence with the Mind Raper, and... um. You're told you're important a bunch.

Chapter 3? You escape Vaylin and Arcann and get some exposition.

Chapter 4? You find a big ship and repair it. Woo.

...it's just a lot less stuff happening, and usually stuff that's only important because of other stuff that happens later. I mean, Chapter 12's great thing is that you meet up with Satele, she and Marr exposit at you a bunch, you get a new weapon and... that's it, and that's only relevant because it'll come in handy in the finale.

Don't get me wrong, I have gripes. What would I be if I couldn't find nits to pick?

...seriously, the Alliance wouldn't be this giant cult of personality around Story!Shaantil... and Arcann's whole "going good" thing is way too sudden, even if he is a whole lot more interesting now...

But the major thing is that there's MEAT here. A lot of it. Fascinating developments, good character work, Vaylin getting a "Kylo Moment" that is just wonderful...

Oh, and it's fun to play too, with a lot of fun moments. Piloting a walker! Indiana-Jonesing a tomb! Metal Gear Squeak! I AM LIBERTY PRIME!

And really, the base fights are often fun. I'm really loving the number of wave fights here, Shaantil's just flying about the area blowing shit up. I'm a bit sad I had to turn down the difficulty to "Story" once I got a level under my belt, but I'm probably going to be coming back to it once I get some gear, because those fights are feeling FUN.

[Toasty McGrath]

So many loose ends Bioware forgot to tie up. The Scions, where all those tribute resources were going...

[LVT]

So many loose ends Bioware forgot to tie up. The Scions, where all those tribute resources were going...

How half the emperor and empresses are missing their other halfs... (And how those halfs haven't heard of them and returned years after you re-appear)...

Also the "choice" in chapter 8 felt more cheap emotional manipulation rather than a HARD CHOICE YOU HAVE TO MAKE AS THE LEADER OF MILITARY BADASSES. Ruins a good chapter IMO.



I r8 7.8/10 not enough giant robots.

[Joshmaul]

There seemed to be a lot of walkers and giant robots in this story. I have to admit that the titan robot on Iokath was a source of much joygasm - as was the laundry list of people I got to kill this run! (Malagant is pure dark side, of COURSE he's murdering everybody.)

As mentioned before, I like that this story gave Vaylin a bit more substance than an emotionally, mentally, and Force-fully unstable brat child. It even gave you a kinda-sorta reason to feel sympathy for her - especially her dialogues with "Thexan" on Iokath. But it does beg a question: How much of what Vaylin became was due to Nathema, and how much of it to the fact that Tenevitikorion (or Valkotenevitiate, or however) is just a douche...and how much is purely Vaylin?

[Wymarc]

Ugh... I've barely started watching the lets plays, and I'm already wondering how the hell we're going to RP in this setting.

[LVT]

Actually everyone get's back to Sith VS Jedi w/ overlords tryina play nice at the end.

Only you're the Overlord. And they made Acina hella likable somehow. Props to Bio I guess, making a character with nearly 0 screen time universally hated and then making people feel bad about it.

[Orell]

So, finished it up and... woof.

Okay, first things first? It's hella fun. While I'm very much a story-over-gameplay person, I'm not immune to it and it was a LOT more fun to play than basically anything in KOTFE. They gave you more companions, threw in more abilities, played with different vehicle sections (even if the second Walker bit was a bit redundant)... Like I said in my first post, even the base fights play with the number of enemies you're facing and how fast and stuff like that, those "hold the line" fights are immense fun, especially on Veteran difficulty.

But yeah, it's kinda what I thought it'd be going in: They tried really, really hard to tie up as many of the loose ends as possible and just end the whole Zakuul arc in one go. There's a few things they didn't patch up, but I think they handled the rest of them pretty well.

Also? I enjoy it when villains basically go "...yeah, I didn't really have a grand, master plan. I mean, I figured out a loose path eventually, but damn all that random shit that kept happening...", it's a nice change of pace from the "I totally meant to get killed/captured, all part of my master plan!" sort.

So many loose ends Bioware forgot to tie up. The Scions, where all those tribute resources were going...

Also the "choice" in chapter 8 felt more cheap emotional manipulation rather than a HARD CHOICE YOU HAVE TO MAKE AS THE LEADER OF MILITARY BADASSES. Ruins a good chapter IMO

I get that, it's pretty much a shallow echo of Virmire... but I love how the kill was done in mine. Moment of hope, maybe Vaylin will let him go because he's trivial and nothing... and on-screen neck-snap. Seriously jumped.

My main concern right now is... how are we going to manage this in terms of RP? I guess the Eternal Alliance will act... more or less ambiguously neither-good-or-evil, haven't seen the DS path taken yet so can't know for certain, but it's a bit of a concern on my end :(.

As mentioned before, I like that this story gave Vaylin a bit more substance than an emotionally, mentally, and Force-fully unstable brat child. It even gave you a kinda-sorta reason to feel sympathy for her - especially her dialogues with "Thexan" on Iokath. But it does beg a question: How much of what Vaylin became was due to Nathema, and how much of it to the fact that Tenevitikorion (or Valkotenevitiate, or however) is just a douche...and how much is purely Vaylin?

...absolutely agreed. I especially like how she re-brainwashed all of the GEMINI droids to be simple slaves, undoing the growth that SCORPIO gave them... and basically served as her final, unredeemable action. I mean, killing Torian/Vette? Dickish, but war and all. Enslaving free-willed minions that are a clear analog for her? Yeah, that's going past the moral event horizon.

[Joshmaul]

Ugh... I've barely started watching the lets plays, and I'm already wondering how the hell we're going to RP in this setting.

That does kind of put a spanner into the works, doesn't it? The "Eternal Alliance"...essentially we've gone from fighting the evil empire to BEING the evil empire, especially if - like Story!Malagant - you went full-blown dark side. (As I said before, "Emperor Malagant" has a nice ring to it.)

[Orell]

Ugh... I've barely started watching the lets plays, and I'm already wondering how the hell we're going to RP in this setting.

That does kind of put a spanner into the works, doesn't it? The "Eternal Alliance"...essentially we've gone from fighting the evil empire to BEING the evil empire, especially if - like Story!Malagant - you went full-blown dark side. (As I said before, "Emperor Malagant" has a nice ring to it.)

...I think it's workable, if we make a few assumptions.

1: The Eternal Fleet is not a resource that can be spent carelessly. It was utterly massive in chapter 1, sure. Before numerous combat actions, not to mention the Gravestone, have torn multiple holes out of it, and the only location that can construct new ones is currently super-radioactive... so yeah.

2: The Knights of Zakuul, a significant military force with Zakuul, have been decimated by the constant fighting, and don't exactly have any particular loyalty to the new Emperor/Empress.

3: The majority of the Alliance joined it to defeat Zakuul and free the rest of the galaxy from it's domineering grasp. While apparently the Alliance has become something of a cult of personality around the Outlander (grumble), if the Outlander turns just as bad as Arcann/Vaylin, they're not going to have an army to fight with.

So whether the Eternal Alliance is led by a benevolent dictator or a cruel emperor, they're not going to have a huge military presence, just for pragmatic reasons... but I haven't seen the Dark Side ending yet, so dunno how much that follows >_<.

[Noth]

I haven't gotten to play it or watch anything yet, since I've only just... begun... KotFE, but to clarify: Outlander becomes Emperor/Empress and now we're all citizens of a possibly-more-benevolent Zakuul, is that it? Because... that... how the hell do we RP in that? Is Zakuul going to force peace between the Republic and the Sith? Do the Republic and Sith Empire no longer exist as political entities? What does that mean for things like the Jedi? What does that mean for stuff like Empire Night? What does that mean for our little Coalition? I feel like we can all agree Zakuul's creepy top-down surveillance and death stations are not a good thing, how do we handle that now that they're us?

[Joshmaul]

The impression I got - dark side, at least - is that while we now rule Zakuul, it's not the center of the galaxy anymore; the Eternal Throne has apparently been moved to the base on Odessen. Zakuul is now a colony of the "Eternal Alliance", as it were. And in all honesty - speaking as Malagant again here, heh - it would be nice if we could just burn Zakuul to cinders for all the trouble we went through.

[Orell]

Yeah, the Republic and Empire (yay, only one Empire again!) are still themselves, and they're basically treating the Eternal Alliance as a sovereign power instead of an overlord... while they rebuild and rearm because while they're grateful for the things the Outlander has done, they ain't fools either.

[Noth]

Yeah, the Republic and Empire (yay, only one Empire again!) are still themselves, and they're basically treating the Eternal Alliance as a sovereign power instead of an overlord... while they rebuild and rearm because while they're grateful for the things the Outlander has done, they ain't fools either.

Sovereign power, so, still in charge of everything? ... This feels like the only logical ending is trying to shrug off the Alliance and gain autonomy again, which Bioware can't swing and have you stay the hero. :/

Well, plus side, can our Jedi characters go out of hiding at least?

[Orell]

Yeah, the Republic and Empire (yay, only one Empire again!) are still themselves, and they're basically treating the Eternal Alliance as a sovereign power instead of an overlord... while they rebuild and rearm because while they're grateful for the things the Outlander has done, they ain't fools either.

Sovereign power, so, still in charge of everything? ... This feels like the only logical ending is trying to shrug off the Alliance and gain autonomy again, which Bioware can't swing and have you stay the hero. :/

Well, plus side, can our Jedi characters go out of hiding at least?

Sovereign power just means a power that is in full control over itself and its territory. Dunno about the DS version, but the LS ending is pretty explicit that the whole galaxy is no longer under the Eternal Throne's dominion. Think of it as a geographically small but militarily powerful nation in Wild Space, particularly controlling Zakuul and Odessan and maybe a few other locations out there too, using our massive navy to influence the rest of-.

Hm.

...yeah, we basically just made ourselves the British Empire...

[Noth]

LMAO. Thanks @Orell, that cleared it up. Not ideal, not really happy about it, but at least closer to normal.

I'm guessing no news on the various organizations in the Republic and Empire and how they are rebuilding (or not)?