What to Do With Schrodinger's Galaxy...

[Noth]

I figured we should make a thread about this, rather than derailing the update spoilers thread.

The last major story update, we had a discussion about what to do with the lack of information about canon storylines or the setting from Bioware, and a lot of people said things along the lines of "Wait for the new expansion, maybe they will give us something." Well... we got to the newest story update, and lo and behold, we do not have a State of the Galaxy. I think it's time we sat down as a server and figured out what to do about the lack of setting to RP in.

Obviously this thread will have spoilers. Do not read if you don't want that! Link to previous discussions about KOTFE's RP impact and the KOTET spoilers thread for context.

Issue #1: Schrodinger's Galaxy

Is Malcolm alive or dead? Is Saresh alive or dead? Is Acina alive or dead? Where the hell are the Jedi based and who is leading them? Is the Alliance helping the Empire or the Republic in the renewed Cold War? Etc. etc. etc. While the new FP seems to be moving more towards a single, unified storyline, these big questions remain unanswered.

Having to RP in a haze of uncertainty when it comes to major governmental and military powers is becoming a hindrance to RP. It's impossible to create any kind of deep military RP, any kind of deep government RP, any kind of deep Jedi or Sith RP, when we don't even know basic things like "Where are the Jedi located?" "Who's in charge of the Empire?" Being vague has worked so far, but the further we get into renewed galactic conflict, the more (at least for me) I feel like it turns me away from RP and makes it impossible as a GM to come up with stories to run.

Individual guilds have come up with their own solutions to this, but in coming up with guild-specific solutions, I worry that we're splintering the community even more than it already is. We are a tiny community. We can't really afford that.

Coming up with definitive, server-wide answers for our canon for the galaxy would create leaping-off points for more RP in the vein of the old class stories. With a clear vision of the political layout of the galaxy, we could start to create more plots that delve into renewed conflicts, political schemes, and just plain "Who is in charge of what planet" types of questions. It would open up RP and, I think, bring back players who left because having to deal with the vague state of the galaxy was too difficult.

Obviously in order to do this, we would have to agree on what state of the galaxy we all prefer... That's what discussion in this thread can hopefully resolve (plus polls! for whatever we cannot).

Issue #2: Creating Content in a Void

One solution to this problem is what we have, thus far, been doing: Creating one-shots or standalone arcs which don't involve any of the major powers at all. This works pretty well for a short-term solution. However, it's becoming clear that we need a long-term solution since Bioware keeps holding the state of the larger Galaxy in secrecy... or just plain not wanting to write or think about it.

Creating content in a void (i.e. no impact on setting, no impact on characters, no impact on storyline) can't be sustained:

1. From a player perspective, it's not very satisfying. Your characters have no impact on the world, and the world has no impact on your characters. Without a Bioware setting to play off of, 100% of the setting, characters, plot, and impact has to be fully self-contained in the adventure itself. It can't impact the story... it can't impact the factions... it has to exist in Schrodinger's Galaxy. Characters can only grow in relation to other RP characters, and aren't allowed to impact or take part in the setting they live in. I don't know about you... but I don't find that fun.

2. From a GM perspective, it's hard to keep content going with only one-shots and self-contained adventures. We've already seen both Empire Night and Indie Night die out because of people not having the time or the ability to host adventures. It's a lot of work, and we just don't have the content creators to keep producing one-shots in the void that Bioware has given us. If we want content, we have to create it, because Bioware won't give us any... and nobody is creating content, so the big RPs just aren't happening.

The only solution to this is to have more GMs stepping up to write adventure plots and create stories for the community. Without that, we're left with whatever Bioware is giving us... and Bioware isn't giving us anything if we aren't the Alliance Commander.

So How Do We Fix This?

I see a few solutions to the problem, some better or worse than others.

1. We decide on a shared server canon for the past few expansions, create a small guide to our server canon, and post it somewhere highly visible on the site so new players can easily find it. With a shared server canon, we no longer operate in Schrodinger's Galaxy, and we don't have to rely 100% on player-created storylines and worldbuilding to drive RP. We'll be able to engage with the setting as we decide upon it.

2. Each guild and meta-group decides their own personal server canon and runs with that. This is a bad solution, to be frank. We are a tiny community, our guilds are small, and we can't really afford further splintering. Unfortunately, it's also one I see already happening. Ex. in Jedi RP there's still a lot of confusion over whether there is a Jedi Council and where they are located. This solutions adds more Schrodingering, not less, and compounds the problem.

3. We continue to make vague one-shots and try to not touch the greater galaxy at all. I already covered the pros and cons of this in Issue #2, so look up there for more details. TL;DR it's unsatisfying and difficult to sustain without people willing to actually run and write stories for the community.

4. We move ahead into a different era of Star Wars history entirely, and tell Bioware's canon to go take a hike. This is an extreme solution... but I think it has a lot of merit. Bioware is showing no signs of wanting to tell us what's going on with the greater galaxy. This would allow us to create epic Star Wars stories under a new banner. Unfortunately, Bioware can also nuke this plan from orbit with any new updates that disrupt the course we are taking as a community. But what else is new?

Obviously more solutions will come up during this thread. I just ask that people keep the topic to solutions to the Schrodinger's Galaxy and keep it productive. If you don't think we should come up with a solution, then vote Solution #3. I am going to reserve a post underneath this one to collect summaries of the discussion.

[Noth]

De-Schrodingering the Galaxy: Discussion Summary

This is the post to collect ideas for what to do as a community so that they will all be in one place. Discussion is now open!

Canon So Far:

- Jebevel Madon is the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic in the absence of former Chancellor Saresh.

- Resources plundered from skytroopers and star fortresses are being used across the galaxy to rebuild in the wake of the Eternal Empire leaving.

Proposed Solutions:

To be decided!

[Imazi]

The best I can come up with is something similar coming up with a group specific answer. Yet, what I propose is pick a stance then be flexible. For Instance, our intelligence leads us to believe that Saresh is dead, Acina has gone awol and Jace malcolm is tied up in Alliance Space. If things change, fall back on: Our intelligence was wrong, we need to regroup and find out what is going on.

The problem with everyone having a different story is actually a meta problem. People start arguing with each other over who is "right" based on what they saw in the cutscenes and such which is actually OOC. Even in real life people have more than one source of info and it leads to people being exposed to different parts of the same info. The Blind Men and the Elephant. 

It's perfectly reasonable for everyone to have ICly heard their sources giving different second or third hand info. Given the tight nature of the action, even people in the Alliance are getting info second and third hand. One way or another, word of mouth is going to muddle that info. If you like, come up with a character who gave the info so you have a character to play the fall guy for misinformation later.

Otherwise, pick the combination that works best for you and run with it just be willing to RP some uncertainty about that combination if necessary. Maybe come up with a limiting factor that keeps your group from trying to do more investigative work to find out what really happened. Given the resources crunch, there is a pretty good reason to not be able to jaunt across the galaxy.

[Noth]

It's perfectly reasonable for everyone to have ICly heard their sources giving different second or third hand info. Given the tight nature of the action, even people in the Alliance are getting info second and third hand. One way or another, word of mouth is going to muddle that info. If you like, come up with a character who gave the info so you have a character to play the fall guy for misinformation later.

It makes sense for people not involved in those factions, yes... but the Jedi not knowing if there's a Jedi council, the Sith not knowing if they have an Empress... that stretches belief a lot, especially when we are supposedly a year or more out from the initial events. I could maaaybe buy a Republic soldier not knowing the state of the leadership in the heat of the battle, or Saresh's fate going forgotten in the chaos of Zakuul. It's hard to use the misinformation angle when it's something that big.

I mean... you get this:

"Well the Jedi Council on Tython assigned me--"
"The Jedi Council's dead."
"There's a new Council; you can go to Tython and, you know, talk to them."
"No the Jedi Council's on Coruscant, I know because they assigned me..."

That's a great scenario in the initial chaos, or if we're running with the Jedi starting to break up into the Jedi Lords of the Dark Ages, but when it's months of that by necessity of not having a shared canon, it gets pretty confusing to have to always deflect any and all talk of the people in charge of your group. (I just pull out Jedi because that's what I'm most familar with! I'm sure other factions have similar problems though.)

Iokath is similar but feels less pressing. We can probably run with vagueness for Iokath for a while. In day-to-day RP I don't see that many people even mentioning Iokath... and I'm sure that one of the reasons is the inability to take it out of the ambiguity surrounding exactly what's going on there.

The problem with everyone having a different story is actually a meta problem. People start arguing with each other over who is "right" based on what they saw in the cutscenes and such which is actually OOC. Even in real life people have more than one source of info and it leads to people being exposed to different parts of the same info.

That's one reason why I think it's important to nail down a singular canon. Even if some people are playing it up as misinformation or are doing their own canons in their personal plots, we as a community should be able to have a canon to point to definitively and play off of in RP for continuity's sake.

We're a small enough server that if you're going to RP events held by the people on this forum, chances are you're already reading the forum and participating in the conversation. So it wouldn't be some arbitrary canon decided by a few people, it would be decided by the people who want to use the shared canon for their events and plotlines. No one has to use it if they don't want to, but everyone who does use it will have the opportunity to weigh in on what they want it to be.

[Ela]

I would think that there still is a Jedi Council, but the leadership is perhaps undetermined, with Satele AWOL. The same could be said about pretty much every aspect of leadership across the galaxy, whether Imperial or Republic. It's a state of chaos with civilizations struggling for basic survival, so it goes to figure that there might be in-fighting and factionalization among the ranks.

That's why I ally with the Free Spacers Fleet :) It allows me to sort of maintain an allegiance to the Republic (even though I chose Imps on Iokath...) while still remaining somewhat neutral and in the middle.

[Imazi]

The way I see the Jedi situation is that all the jedi can feel the light side presences out there some where but none of it is concentrated. They are still dispersed and the Force hasn't drawn them together yet. Therefore they go about trying to take care of their immediate areas for now.

One plot would be seeking out Jedi to find them even if you don't have anywhere to gather them yet. I assume Tython is still in ruins as even Coruscant is pretty jacked up. Therefore the idea is to find where people are for when you need to go get them later, however, as you find dispersed Jedi, you may also find them in need of back up to take on a local problem. That local problem could be the theme for an individual event while the greater plot is finding lost Jedi.

As for the Council, they are also dispersed and thus are not able to serve as a regulatory body, thus everyone has to fall back on their training. Their are rumors that Master Shan has been seen but it is uncertain if they are true. There are similar rumors regarding other members of the council but one things is for certain, they are not all together. You could have a plot of going out to search for the council members to bring them back but you find other Jedi along the way.

Your characters will just have to be more independent than they may be comfortable with. However, I think Ela is right. Everybody's structure is severely undermined right now. This means procedures are going to get loose everywhere.

[Karmic]

Posting this from the other thread - relevant even if not directly exactly on topic :).

If you're waiting for Bioware to give us more stable footing before you get out and RP events (no matter how small you may feel they are in the overall picture...) then there won't be any RPers left around when that time happens.

RP while you have people willing to RP.  Waiting and not RPing because we don't have a "great" solution - just means you don't have people left anymore.  This community is dying right now; less RP happening then there has been since this game launched.

We (as in our community here) either show up to what RP we have going and do the best we can with what Bioware gives us, or have no RPers left to Rp with.  And that's going to happen now sooner than later - because of how many we've lost in the last six months.

Creating content in a void (i.e. no impact on setting, no impact on characters, no impact on storyline)

THis is how it is 100% of the time in any MMO.  Nothing we do has any impact on setting or storyline - and never has.  So I'm not sure why this is such a hinderance now.  We have Iokath and we're suppose to be fighting over it.  Alliance is a third faction and people playing that faction can decide for themselves (as they would do anyway) whether they wish to help their Republic friends or those Imperial friends in whatever "current plot" is asking them to do.  Just as every other player has done in the past no matter what faction their character plays for. 

We've never had people playing the Emperor, or the leader of the Jedi to "send out a call and unite players".  Not having them never curtailed anything before.  We aren't asking strangers to obey some NPC/PC to "call on all Jedi" or "do what the emperor says and go after this plot" and we never have.

Yes, we definitely have a lack of GM type players; they have always been in the minority.  And yes, the entire focus (OOC bioware game story) on an individual-hero-storyline (with various factions having different scenarios) does make it more complicated when you're trying to tie in the plot events with the "bigger picture."

But the bigger picture before was JUST Sith vs. Jedi.  That was it.  And we have that again.  We DEFINITELY can play that up again!  And it doesn't require anyone subscribing to some third party decided server "standard" that we just "come up with" and probably will end up changing in the next chapter anyway (lawls)

There is an NPC Emperor - the Empire is not rudderless and of course we can't have one player pick that up :).

There are reasons "all Jedi" would be operating in the same fashion - with or without a greater jedi council to command them.

Alliance peeps can treat themselves as independents (because the plot line won't LET us do anything else and probably never will because "all of us" are the leader of the alliance ooc plot wise) and decide for each event what side they play out on.

I"m just not sure what scenario we're trying to decide where the norms of every year of playing before this whole "Zakulian spin off" don't still apply.  And we can't just operate with that again?

It makes sense for people not involved in those factions, yes... but the Jedi not knowing if there's a Jedi council, the Sith not knowing if they have an Empress... that stretches belief a lot, especially when we are supposedly a year or more out from the initial events.

See this is where even though the plot may not tell us- I don't buy it.  The Empire is not running without some governing body, or governing person taking charge.  Just because Bioware doesn't' label that person doesnt' mean its anarchy in the governments :).

And before, when those people were always NPCs - everyone operated with whatever "commands" they wanted to - whether within their guild arcs (Moirae was always "given commands" by the Dark Council and that was of course handwaved) or as individuals.  The Jedi had a thread here where more or less they could operate with the idea of an "over-arching council of some sort" coming out of the player JC guild so that jedis from across guilds and in JC in our community had a way of "coming before some sort of council" to be able to move their IC plots along and keep everyone on the same page.

No reason we can't do any of those things - still.  (?)

Except for the fact that our population is much smaller, the JC guild itself is much smaller - and so we just don't have a giant population to make up for the fact that every single event won't have more than 10 players because that's all we have in the community total and both sides are made up of people's alts

Which goes back to the problem of - RP while you got it because we're dwindling smaller every month.  Some of our most dedicated RPers (and GMers) are already looking for other games to RP in because no one shows up to group night events weekly to be able to even grow the plot RP with organically.

[Karmic]

Iokath is similar but feels less pressing. We can probably run with vagueness for Iokath for a while. In day-to-day RP I don't see that many people even mentioning Iokath... and I'm sure that one of the reasons is the inability to take it out of the ambiguity surrounding exactly what's going on there.

I can't speak for others - but the reason I've had trouble speaking of any PLOT of the game in the last few months (Iokath and before) is because there isn't any plot developed.

There's barely any story and any "content updates" we get are barely to none more story to play with.  They are dailies/dungeons that tell us nothing. Including what else Iokath may hold.  But we DO have the idea of a super weapon - and that's fueled RP for MONTHS before.  (Some here remember the SuperWeapon Plot early in the Zakul plotline that we used for RP for months...)

So yea, other than "We're fighting it out over Iokath and what it could mean..." (We as in jedi v. sith) you're right, we have nothing to talk about because we don't know anything. 

But for the other three years of the game we knew nothing other than "Sith and Jedi are fighting for the galaxy."  And that wasn't a problem?


~~As Examples~~

We've had several larger plots that the entire community could have taken part in - and used to advance a larger storyline so that they aren't just "one offs and done."

But various sides of the community are excluded (for various reasons) from participating.  So yuou REALLY limit how much public interaction people can have on a plot or whether others can keep going once the "one and done" is off and spin-off further plot and event lines.

Prior to Zakul -if Moirae was going after a Sith traitor or a Jedi who was too big for their britches  - we didn't keep it in house.  We talked about it at DP, we talked about it out in the open and tried as hard as we possibly could to include as many active Rpers as possible.  INCLUDING Jedi - Jedi that were antagonists, and Jedi that were trying to save those antagonists from themselves and Jedi/Sith who were trying to walk the middle line without betraying anyone (as Karmic and others often did). 

"Guild" Plotlines WERE community wide plotlines - because otherwise you had four people to play with.  That's no fun! :)

But now - I see one off plotlines entire swaths of the community are kept from.  Which only makes them more dead-ended.  Makes it so that they can't be discussed in public - because people can't just jump in and run with them.  People can't create plots from events they aren't included in.

AS THE EXAMPLES of Expehos's plot that started out as double-faction and then cut out half the players and made it so "top secret" that even inviting someone from the opposite side becomes a major problem (that doesn't have to exist).  That no one can realy talk about what's going on in public - so no one can bring the plot out into the wider community for anyone ot even have a chance to keep going once the "one off story" is done.  Same with Noth's great thread of Zabrak/Noth clan politics.  A whole plot that could be opened up to a lot of people vicariously - at least so we could have something to talk about at Palace if nothing else - but this isn't discussed in public.  WHatever that thread is about (I've been reading about fights...and other big stuff..) it could be used to spread wider RP and have spin-off arcs and ways to build connections between players.  But it isn't being used for that.

Stell's Iokath plot certainly isn't a "one off plot" and done.  But because there IS an air of "Its Jedi v. Sith" in this particular story - for whatever reason - people aren't talking about it.  They could be.  And I KNOW Karmic WOULD be if someone else would approach her about it.  She walks that line and the character is often used to help bring in people across - faction-lines so that they CAN be included in events that start off as "sithy" or "jedi" in the beginning.

~~~end of examples: please note those were just examples being used as recent/active things going on and are not called out for any other reason other than as examples.  THis was not meant to say people can't have whatever plot they want and limit it however they want; just to use as examples of other ways people can use plots~~~


We have other characters that can be used for the same purposes - to bring things across faction lines.  Because keeping plots "one faction only" in this particular community  does mean they dead end into one-and-done.  We just don't have 30 people on each faction to keep them alive for more - without including "all factions".

If you limit who the plot can reach - you limit the RP.  Something that doesn't affect half the team can't be used to goad more RP - antagonistic or cooperative.  And we don't have the population to keep limiting the RP like that right now.  This place is much more active when we have plots that at least give the possibility for all factions to join in - in various ways (legal or otherwise lol); as it also opens up for conversations outside of the event - to lead to further RP - to lead to more plots... etc. etc.

~~~

I'm also really confused as to how option 1 - figuring out a "community server answer" for the questions - changes what Rp is available?  What questions do you feel need answers in order to come up with more plot?

Outside of the idea that Bioware just ruined Star Wars because it isn't Star Wars.  And what we all want to RP is STAR WARS.  I mean cuz we can go back to that without having to enforce anything on anyone. (?)

[Seraphie]

Stell's Iokath plot certainly isn't a "one off plot" and done.  But because there IS an air of "Its Jedi v. Sith" in this particular story - for whatever reason - people aren't talking about it.  They could be.  And I KNOW Karmic WOULD be if someone else would approach her about it.  She walks that line and the character is often used to help bring in people across - faction-lines so that they CAN be included in events that start off as "sithy" or "jedi" in the beginning.

Actually, it's intended to be more Republic vs Empire, not Jedi vs Sith, and I will be bringing independents into it too, so I'm hoping eventually that it will get talked about at Dancer's Palace.

It's more a question of progression rate, and how fast I can organise the events for the arc, which is a question of time and energy.

My goal was to provide the community with a plot on top of the environment-low-on-useable-plot BW has given us. My hope is that, give it time, and this will heat things up.

[Noth]

@Imazi and @Karmic thanks for the answers!

What you're both proposing is solution #3:

3. We continue to make vague one-shots and try to not touch the greater galaxy at all. I already covered the pros and cons of this in Issue #2, so look up there for more details. TL;DR it's unsatisfying and difficult to sustain without people willing to actually run and write stories for the community.

Problem being, as you both point out, it relies on player-created content. If you want to see more one-shots and community-developed worldbuilding/adventures, then be the change you want to see! We dont' have enough GMs right now. If you two want to step up and do adventures, that would be one solution to the dearth of story content to work with and very welcome. I'm running more structured Jedi Nights these next few weeks to produce some of that myself. If you both want to see that, you should both definitely think about running some arcs and storylines for people to play in.

Seraphie's Iokath adventures are awesome, for example. I'd love to see more of those kinds of events cropping up in the community.

[Imazi]

I wish I could help you Noth but I can't do anything during the week because of work. :( I haven't even been able to make palace night.

[Karmic]

@Imazi and @Karmic thanks for the answers!

What you're both proposing is solution #3:

3. We continue to make vague one-shots and try to not touch the greater galaxy at all. I already covered the pros and cons of this in Issue #2, so look up there for more details. TL;DR it's unsatisfying and difficult to sustain without people willing to actually run and write stories for the community.

Problem being, as you both point out, it relies on player-created content. If you want to see more one-shots and community-developed worldbuilding/adventures, then be the change you want to see! We dont' have enough GMs right now. If you two want to step up and do adventures, that would be one solution to the dearth of story content to work with and very welcome. I'm running more structured Jedi Nights these next few weeks to produce some of that myself. If you both want to see that, you should both definitely think about running some arcs and storylines for people to play in.

Seraphie's Iokath adventures are awesome, for example. I'd love to see more of those kinds of events cropping up in the community.

I am the change I want to see - that I can accomplish.

I am just not someone who can GM events.  I can't come up with plots. I can't come up with story arcs.  At 40 years old, I've NEVER been able to do these things and I've been Roleplaying in real life, stories, forums, and in MMOs for more than 20 years now.

I know what my strengths and weaknesses are.  I can be a great contributor and "Flusher-outer" of the stories and plots of others in helping to brainstorm.  But when it comes to organizing and Gmming a plot-arc event - I might as well be brain dead.    I wish this were not the case, but it just is.

I am the change I want to see in that whether my character perfectly fits an event or not - I attempt to FIND a reason to include her in any sideways way possible and I ATTEND *everything* offered I possibly can.  That is what I can do as a player/character in the plots of others - show up and RP with them!

But if something is faction isolated - obviously I can't break in and play along.  I can only stretch Karmic as far as the "other side" is willing to allow it without getting too crazy (which is why I didn't want to dress her up as a pirate to go hunting on Iokath, I feared it was a bit too much of a stretch and others might be bothered by her presence there).

Its not easy to be a GM and come up with story-events.  I never said it was.  So no, not everyone can just jump in and create events for others.  I swear if I could, I already would be.  But that's not the creative mind I have. No matter how hard I've tried more than half my life.

But what the non-Gm'ers of us can do - is at least show up to RP in what is provided.  To allow for more characters to interact with in whatever community night or plot event we may have.  But we can't do that when its faction-exclusive.  I tried many times (as Noth Knows) to be even allowed into the Rest of the Expehos Plot line after the Alliance plot shifted - and was told "nope" for most of it.  Karmic can't come to Jedi night and Sith who have done so in the past have ticked off/put off a lot of other RPers (when its not for a cited specific plot reason).

I do Note many people have also been out - like Imazi or Noth or Zmaj due to IRL issues.  But unfortunately with so few players - so many active people being out due to IRL is greatly effecting the rest of us left behind.  Doesn't do any good to have an event when people just aren't around and can't be around (much like Sera had to speak up about her event being cancelled because of a lack of interest before people stepped up to say they could come...).

And Noth - I'm still waiting on you to answer the question I posed at the end of my last email.  What "Scenario 1" answers would you need to have to feel like you would have an easier time putting up events?  Since that is what you're citing is the reason for the lack of Gmmed events for yourself to put on?

What nebulousness is preventing this?  Because all I see is the same nebulousness that is prevalent in the MMO genre to begin with, or in SWTOR from day one - when all we had to go on is "Republic v. Empire" with no further "guidance" to an end game than that?

And this is more of a reality of a dying game in a low-populated RP landscape.  GMs are always in a minority; there are always more actors than story-writers. 

All we (the actors) can do is support the GMers we have and SHOW UP- even if its not 100% "canon allowed", even if its not 100% accurate for our characters to be there or "if they would care."  But to realize that we *need* to find ways to have as many people possible (for as many open reasons as we can) be able to play in the events we got - so we have enough people to keep everyone having fun and interested in more.

And again - we've never been able to effect the "greater galaxy" as a whole - you can't in any MMO.  So I'm still not sure what "effecting the greater galaxy" you're shooting for that "one offs" can't help provide.

A one-off can't spur further RP if its faction-closed.  A one-off can't spur further events if its so secretive we can't discuss it (so we can argue about it and pick sides!) in public.  Even the  "Freeing Nar Shaddaa from Zakul rule" is a "one off" if no one takes it out in the public to spread roleplay with. 

[Karmic]

Though I would like to add--

We also suffer from the problem of there being far more REpublic Players than Sith Players.  Another problem we've always had (for whatever reason).

With Zmaj and Imazi and Nic (and Mei this month) being more out, SIth side we're operating with maybe less than a half-dozen Imperial/Sith players on regularly right now.  Kriff I"m not even sure we have 4.

:/

And I also wanted to throw this out there - I am certainly open for anyone who wants to use Karmic and "krayt industries" as a foil/plot reason to create a larger arc.  To create events around should someone else come to me with any ideas for larger plots.

I'd love that!  I can use her in all sorts of ways.  (Just don't come to me to declare Kagaths or things that would get her excommunicated or dead logically... LOL).

I'm happy to use the giant corporation and its cross-faction ties to Republic and Independents as staging grounds/discussion starters for greater plot arcs!

I just can't come up with them myself.  I can't even come up with a story for just Karmic... :(

[Niarra]

@Imazi - Your ideas for how to handle the state of the Jedi are pretty much what the community has already been doing for the past year, so everyone's minds do seem to have trended the same way. :) The trouble is that what Noth called out in his original post is still very true - that even in our relatively small community there is already a splintering. If you talk to half of the Jedi players they will tell you Tython is still standing (bruised but standing) and that there is at minimum a local (think enclave level) council there. Talk to the other half and they will tell you Tython is still in ruins and scattered enclaves are barely coming out of hiding. Just about the only thing everyone can agree on is there's no High Council, and that's all well and good, but it makes the rest of it tricky.

It isn't even about characters needing to be more independent than they are ICly comfortable with, because I haven't seen that as being a problem in any of the Jedi RP I've observed (in fact, it's become almost the defacto common thread through all the Jedi RP still kicking). Rather, it's much more about trying to be considerate of not running roughshod over everyone else around you. Like, for example, for some time the Wraiths were running plotlines around rebuilding Tython, and similarly @Ela has set a lot of her plots on Tython, and @Zmaj has her Jedi characters based on Tython, and etc (calling out names just as examples of a broader point), while on the flipside we have other enclaves (either guilds or small groups of characters) who have long been operating under the assumption that they are completely on their own with no leadership (or even safe haven) on Tython to speak of.

None of that is necessarily an issue, of course, provided people are willing to accept that level of dissonance and disconnect and just do their best to muddle through it. But I think the only way to get around this (if we care to) is to sort of work (as best we can and to the extent it's reasonably possible) to address it at a community level. Maybe that's not achieved through a forum thread; maybe that's only achieved through some big RP event. But in the absence of some idea of the direction the community might generally want to go, a big RP event could end up being the vision of a singular GM imposed upon everyone else, and that's not ideal either.

In response to Noth's original premise, I would say that most realistically we're probably stuck looking at Option #3, with all the pros and cons he mentioned. But of course again here we come back to the question of people running content, and people showing up for that content.

If it were possible to manage, I think something that falls between #1 and #3 might be ideal. I don't know if it's possible to achieve, but in the interest of brain-storming I'll just ramble...

Maybe a bare bones neutral-as-possible "canon" for the background, something along the lines of: Both Acina and Malcom are alive and kicking; whichever one made the dumb move with the throne was seriously injured but recovered, and leave it at that. The Eternal Alliance is still an independent third party and whether it's leaning toward allying with the Republic or the Empire continues to be a hot issue of rumors and speculation and concern, with independent operatives having "intel" either way at any given time. Madon is Supreme Chancellor (that much is game canon at least) and the Jedi are no longer persona non grata (at least implied by the game canon scene of Satele on Coruscant). Jedi RP is still a little screwed even under this "neutral" take without a High Council, but so be it.

Obviously no one can (or should) god-mod other players into accepting any version of "community canon." But if a lot of folks say "Yeah, most of us generally just assume this neutral thing by default and if you've got a guild plot that goes another way that's cool, just might be hard to trot it out into an open event and not expect some pushback"... well, maybe that helps. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's not that different from what we normally do.

Maybe, at a community level, the answer is to have some of our remaining Guild Masters get together and see if the guilds can collectively agree on a few points, because then even if plotlines remain faction or guild specific everyone is operating on the same framework?

Just throwing thoughts at the wall here, seeing if any of it sticks...

[Noth]

If it were possible to manage, I think something that falls between #1 and #3 might be ideal. I don't know if it's possible to achieve, but in the interest of brain-storming I'll just ramble...

Maybe a bare bones neutral-as-possible "canon" for the background, something along the lines of: Both Acina and Malcom are alive and kicking; whichever one made the dumb move with the throne was seriously injured but recovered, and leave it at that. The Eternal Alliance is still an independent third party and whether it's leaning toward allying with the Republic or the Empire continues to be a hot issue of rumors and speculation and concern, with independent operatives having "intel" either way at any given time. Madon is Supreme Chancellor (that much is game canon at least) and the Jedi are no longer persona non grata (at least implied by the game canon scene of Satele on Coruscant). Jedi RP is still a little screwed even under this "neutral" take without a High Council, but so be it.

Obviously no one can (or should) god-mod other players into accepting any version of "community canon." But if a lot of folks say "Yeah, most of us generally just assume this neutral thing by default and if you've got a guild plot that goes another way that's cool, just might be hard to trot it out into an open event and not expect some pushback"... well, maybe that helps. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's not that different from what we normally do.

I think this is a good solution. That's part of why I made that summary post at the top. We are already for a large part playing in a shared continuity. We just need to codify it.

A guild summit like you mentioned would be doable, for sure, but I know there are also a lot of independents out there, and they deserve to have a voice in what we decide as a community as well.

I forgot about Madon. I'll add that into the summary post.